Interview with Treet.tv CEO Wiz Nordberg

Wiz Nordberg is the founder and CEO of Treet.tv, a virtual television company in Second Life. I recently had the opportunity to meet up with him, shortly after he attended one of the snail races covered by his network, and ask a few questions.


Bixyl Shuftan: How did you first find out about Second Life?

Wiz Nordberg: That is becoming harder and harder to remember. I am not much of a gaming person, but I find simulations and "expressive tools" interesting. I think I may have read about it online somewhere. I just don't recall anymore. My wife, Texas Timtam, and I used (Second Life) for about 8 months to a year before ever considering the idea of doing something "serious" in here. It was just for fun.

Bixyl Shuftan: How did that first year go?

Wiz Nordberg: Oh, it was a revelation. The main attraction to me was the "empty slate" of Second Life and the fact that everything everywhere was the creation of a resident. That was remarkably energizing to us. We met some great people, long time SL users, and made some great friends. They helped us to know what to do and what was interesting. Of course that was almost 4 years ago, there were far fewer people here, and the ones who were here were dedicated. The influx of "the curious" had not yet begun.

Bixyl Shuftan: How did Treet.tv come about?

Wiz Nordberg: Unexpectedly. (smile) It is a long story, but let me see if I can shorten it. My wife Texas has worked with the music industry a lot. In 2007, she convinced the Australian government to sponsor an inworld music event to coincide with South-by-Southwest. It was called the Texas Aussie Music Party. Because of our history in the music webcast business (we have done some very large commercial ones for record labels), it seemed obvious to me to try to "film it" somehow. Since we had a lot of experience with that, it was a fun experiment.

But... Unexpectedly, while I was testing I set up a screen in a club that we went to with some friends of ours. Just to get some of the settings right. The people in the club, when they saw themselves on the screen.... well... they almost acted like a group of pre-technology natives that had just seen a telephone for the first time! They started dancing and having fun, and couldn't stop. It was amazing to see their reaction at "seeing themselves".

Within minutes, literally, we were over at “godaddy” and called it the Second Life Cable Network (SLCN). That really is how it all started, with that moment.

Bixyl Shuftan: So it was a spur of the moment decision?

Wiz Nordberg: Yes, we did not intend to start a business. It was just an extension of the fun we were already having. It took months before we started to believe it was something we should take seriously. We did an experimental show called “That S'Life,” we did it ourselves just to prove that the "idea" of television could be transported successfully here. Then we began meeting people who wanted to do shows.

The first was Paisley Beebe, who had performed at the Texas Aussie Music party. To my surprise she didn't want to do a music show, she wanted to do a talk show. When Tonight Live aired, we finally decided that "this was a business" and started planning everything else from there.

Bixyl Shuftan: What would you say have been the more successful shows?

Wiz Nordberg: There have been many. Of the regular shows, Metanomics and Tonight Live had had the largest communities and viewership. But, part of it is because those are also very long running shows. It takes time to gain a loyal audience. Both of those are nearing or exceeding 100 episodes. Shows like the 1st Question and Designing Worlds are catching up.

As far as individual shows, there have been some big successes too. Of course when we had Bruce Willis on, as well as the Transformers Cast with Michael Bay, there were huge numbers for those. But other shows, such as when Paisley interviewed Mark Kingdon and Philip at the Linden Lab offices in San Francisco. That special show did very well. And, inworld, our music shows are at the top of the list always. Our music channel gets almost more viewership than anything else.

Some of the business shows do really well because they have a very interested tech audience. ISTE Eduverse, for example, may really be the biggest show right now in web viewership. They have done a lot to really push that show out to people. I could go on ... about shows. You need to rope me in. (smile)

Bixyl Shuftan: There do seem to be quite a lot of them, talk shows, game shows, sports

Wiz Nordberg: Yes, I didn't even mention all our sports shows! We have done almost 3000 episodes so far. My mouse fingers hurt just thinking about that. :-)

Bixyl Shuftan: Sounds like some shows were a challenge to cover

Wiz Nordberg: Anything worth doing right is challenging. We do shows in a different way than most anybody else, it has its own special problems but also tremendous benefits. As a rule, things go very very smoothly. Our show producers just put in a tremendous amount of work. It's mind boggling sometimes.

Bixyl Shuftan: Maybe I should have brought this up earlier, you mentioned you had experience in the music webcast business?

Wiz Nordberg: Yes, Texas and I owned a business here in Australia which was the number one web provider to the music industry for about nine years. As part of that, we did some of the largest webcasts ever done here, some with 40-50 crew members. We did the main websites for BMG and Warner Music for many years, plus many many others that were single promotions or webcast-only sites. We still run the Paramount Home Entertainment site in Australia. During that time, we learned a great deal from some amazing video professionals we were fortunate enough to work with or have working for us.

Bixyl Shuftan: Did Treet.tv attract any attention from any of those businesses?

Wiz Nordberg: No, I think what we are doing with Treet is off the radar for most traditional media companies. I am not speaking specifically of our clients, but they have a job they are focusing on and the MMO and gaming industry doesn't overlap a lot into their space. Understanding this and seeing the future opportunities takes a leap of faith and a lot of people don't use the same crystal ball we do.

When we worked with Fox and Paramount on the Bruce Willis and Transformers shows, it was with their USA offices. I don't even think we spoke to anybody in Australia at that time, or ever, about what we do. Those deals were really the work of a visionary guy who worked for a company called Picture Production Company. While our entertainment background helped convince them we were the people to work with, they took some amazing risks to create such crossover opportunity and it was great to be in the middle of that.

Bixyl Shuftan: I was told by the staff at one show they managed to get some of their footage onto TV off the Internet, New York City

Wiz Nordberg: Yes I think that might have been the people that work with Pookie at the 1st Question.

Bixyl Shuftan: It was ... Do you see more of that happening, attracting the attention of "real" television?

Wiz Nordberg: I think "real" television has some "real" problems that won't be solved by looking to networks like ours. More than likely, we will start competing with them in alternative television environments like Boxee. That is where the future traction will be. If crossover happens back to cable, it will be fueled by that. Terrible sentence, but you get the gist.

Real television requires enormous markets to function. Markets of 50,000 viewers just won't help them. Our footage has been on TV, both ABC news and BBC as well as Australian Television, but it has been more of a "curiosity" or "human interest story." To get this kind of stuff to happen in mainstream delivery markets, many changes need to occur and it will take a few years. We do, however, think that some shows can "break though" to mainstream market interest. It is one of the things we also are gambling on a bit.

Bixyl Shuftan: There have been some stories about more people relying on the Internet for television. Might this be one of the changes?

Wiz Nordberg: Yes, there is a huge move of interest away from television toward the Internet. We see this unstoppable, and it is not a matter of "if" the internet will replace conventional television, but "when".

Bixyl Shuftan: Any plans for the future you'd like to share?

Wiz Nordberg: Our biggest plan for the future is to extend our reach beyond Second Life viewers and beyond Second Life content. That doesn't mean we are downplaying Second Life, far from it. But, we feel it is essential that our shows can be watched by everybody. Part of that is our new website.

For the first two years, we really did not consider the web our "primary viewership market,” but that has changed in our minds. We see the web now as being as important to delivery as inworld viewing has been. The new website is more exciting, it is more oriented toward discovering things rather than "searching for what you know is there", and it invites people to join in. The old website didn't even allow comments on shows.

When we designed the first website, we figured maybe we would have "100 or so" episodes. The fact that it has held up as thousands of episodes have been produced is a miracle! But, one major difference is the new website focuses primarily on Shows. We care a lot more that people like the show pages than our home page, and we have given our producers control over their sections, as well as done some nerdy things like published our show pages at a higher priority to Google than our other pages. We also designed our own viral player, which is actually scalable to millions of embeds. As the next year evolves we expect to see our player all over the web. It has already been embedded in over 1000 different locations, and it has only been live for 2 months.

There are probably 20 other things I could shout out about, but I'll hold back. Suffice it to say that we see the new website as the first actual step in creating a large online presence. Up until now, everything we have done has been "small" by comparison.

Bixyl Shuftan: If anyone was interested in doing a show, how hard would it be to get on treet.tv

Wiz Nordberg: Well, we accept pitches all the time! We are very receptive. But, one thing that everybody should think about.... we rarely are concerned if people can do the 1st or 2nd show. We believe that is easy. Lots of people have the energy to create a few shows. The big thing we want to know is that they will be able to do the 50th show. So we ask a lot of hard questions about their team, their ability, and their commitment. But we also like to help people we believe are "close" to being able to do it, and just need a push And now and then, we just take a chance on something nutty. (smile)

It was at this point Wiz had to head to a meeting, and so we parted ways.

Bixyl Shuftan

Tonight Live with Paisley Beebe, 23 August

Featuring Nazz Lane, AMForte Clarity and Wiz Norberg

Our very own Nazz Lane appeared recently on Tonight Live with Paisley Beebe. A very skilled interviewer himself, Nazz was on the receiving end this time. Speaking to Nazz just prior to the show, he did not seem the least bit nervous. I, of course, had no doubt he would be brilliant as he spends much of his time here in SL interviewing others, I had every confidence he was prepared and anticipated the types of questions he would be pressed to answer.

Nazz was the first guest. After some sound checks and double checks, Paisley began. Initial bleed over (for lack of a better way to describe it) with each of the speakers made it a bit difficult to follow. The engineers went to work and quickly straightened it out, and the interview proceeded.

Nazz explained he began his journalistic endeavors with Lane's List, a personal account of his experiences in SL. He later stumbled across an ad for the SL Newspaper in his travels and thought he might enjoy writing stories about SL and other events in SL. He contacted the owners, JamesT Juno and Dana Vanmoer, and was given an opportunity for a trial run, for which he was both grateful and excited. This has blossomed into a nearly full time career in SL and he has produced numerous articles and stories for the paper, as well as other publications, including New Vibe magazine, to name one.

Paisley inquired of Nazz what it is about SL that makes good journalism and why he thinks so many people ask him to write for them. Nazz replied he believes it is the fact that he tries to get to the "who" of an individual, to understand who they are, and what motivates them to do what they're doing in SL. He also tries to uncover what drew an individual into SL and what holds him or her in. Understandably, this requires him to be able to keep track of who's doing what in SL and keep his finger on the virtual "pulse" of SL events. He does this via blogs, twitter, RSS feeds, as well as art forums, such as Pirates, Angelgate and Diablos, to keep up on events in the art scene.

Nazz has recently completed the first 5 chapters of his SL book, Borders of Our Lives. The story Is based loosley on the characters in SL, relationships and experiences, from the newbie experiences on. The main character, Jeffrey Goff, is author Jeffrey Stone and RL attorney. Jeff is quickly befriended by a female mentor, who shows him the SL ropes, gets him clothes, hair, etc. Once acclimated, Jeff realizes how it is affecting his RL and finds it difficult to separate the two worlds. (A truer statement I have not heard).

Paisley asked how much of the book was autobiographical versus lives and experiences of people he has met in his SL travels or perhaps people he has interviewed. Nazz acknolwedged he has met many people here, some of whom he absolutely loves and adores and would also like to meet in RL. What Nazz really hopes to achieve with the book is to provide a vehicle by which to bring the SL experience to those outside of SL who have never experienced a virtual world. He tries to achieve this goal through the narrative and also through the dialogue of the characters. Nazz finds it mind boggling that, despite the lack of tactile senses in world, somehow we have a sense of how people feel, how something smells or feels, or the experience of dancing with someone and actually feeling like we are touching them. I think any of us in SL would agree with this, as odd a concept as it may be. This is a diffcult concept to portray to someone who has not experienced SL. It's amazing what our own imaginations can do. Nazz attributes it to the fact that many of us, in our first lives, are engaging in various forms of communication daily, whether it is for the job, via instant messaging or texting, or for some other form of personal enjoyment.

The book can be purchashed via his business office on Tranquil found in Nazz's picks in his profile, or by sending him an IM directly. (Author's Note: Tranquil has since been sold and interested persons should IM Nazz directly to get a copy of Borders of Our Lives.)

According to Nazz, he had always wanted to be a writer in RL but had never tried it. Since he began writing in SL, Nazz has taken steps to hone his craft and hopes to transcend the realm into RL in the future. I am sure we will also enjoy his book when all planned 12 chapters are completed; I anxiously await the final chapter.

Following Nazz was singer/songwriter AMForte Clarity. I have heard AM many times and was compelled to join her group. A very talented performer with a surprisingly refreshing sound, AM spoke about her life growing up in a small village in a suburb or Toronto, Canada.

After performing a song, AM took her place on the couch with Paisley. When asked how she chose her SL name, AM revealed that AM are her RL initials, standing for Anna Maria, her true name. Forte is actually her RL last name so, as she said, she does not hide anything.

AM recounted a bit of her childhood, claiming it was tough growing up and schools were difficult. She noted she was "so uncool" as a kid. Family life was also a struggle for AM. Her family being very religious, she was not permitted to listen to secular music. Of course she did, being the rebel that she was (and still is by her own admission). AM believes being a bit of a rebel sort of keeps it all real and reminds us we are alive as we go through our sometimes mundane, routine filled lives, governed by schedules and "must do" activities. She left home at age 20 to go to North Carolina for school.

Having escaped from the small town environment in which she was raised, AM began looking for love, admittedly in all the wrong places. I can definitely relate to that! A true poetess at heart, AM began turning her prose into songs, setting the words to music. SL has helped AM grow her RL music career. Her website, AMForte.com, includes 5 professionally recorded songs, many other songs she has written that are new and yet to be recorded, and about "300 ideas for other songs," she said, laughing. She has been putting very much effort into getting her RL career off the ground for the past 4 or 5 years, sending demos out to multiple producers, etc. , even including, in some cases, lavish gifts. This she said chuckling, claiming she had heard this was the way to go. Unfortunately, it got to be a bit pricey but she continues to try. You have to admire her tenacity. AM would love to do a RL tour with other SL musicians. My wheels started turning when I heard this. I have ideas for her.

The thing that keeps AM going, she claims, is she nearly died at one point, she did not elaborate, but it opened her eyes. She decided she needed to really start living having been given this second chance at it. This has made her decide that what she really wants to do is sing and write songs rather than have a boring 9-5 job, no matter how profitable it may be. She hopes her songs may help save some lives, through people identifying with the lyrics and the emotions in her songs.

As a poet myself, I can relate to the introversion and using writing as an outlet to express those thoughts and feelings, bourne from our RL experiences, when perhaps times were not always very happy. Listening to AM describe her life's struggles through growing up with strict parents who did not allow her to do much of anything, and often feeling out of place in her environment, I truly felt as though I were looking in a mirror, seeing a reflection of myself and my own life (minus the near death experience). The similiarities were truly uncanny. This interview gave me welcome insight into this talented musician, songwriter, and poetess.

Wrapping up the show was Treettv CEO, Wiz Norberg. Paisley described Wiz as somewhat of a "quiet achiever" with not much written about him, and a real "mover and shaker in SL" due to the content of Treettv, which is fast on its way to becoming one of the biggest media outlets in SL. Wiz says he will appear on some shows, but generally he is so busy making things, he doesn't have much time. The best interviews he's done are with people who have a clue about what he does here in SL, so those interviews go well and are enjoyable for Wiz--much like talking shop to a colleague.

Treettv has been producing 14-15 shows per week generally, for the last 18 months or so. Wiz stated that while it is difficult to know how many people are watching the productions at any given moment, many people watch after the fact, which is why Treettv makes media available via many different options, to accommodate the global community's schedules.

Paisley posed the question that, because there is so much online media available to folks, how is Treettv planning to compete with that? Wiz doesn't believe it is a competion, TV is fun and everyone knows it's graphics they are looking at. "The real competition we have are what other people are doing with their time...because television itself is just .... we're interested in new ways people consume things." Audiences are amazingly committed to the shows on Treettv according to Wiz. He sounded very surprised by this.

Paisley noted that Treettv itself is nearly about to be launched from the former SLCN TV. Wiz clarified that Treettv is already launched and people are watching it a lot inworld. The changes are more due to better production and high definition TV, but the real change is the launch of the website, which is geared to expanding the audience and use the web more effectively. One of the problems they are facing is that so many people are involved for a mere one hour show. Treettv has 3 full time people and various others, and the whole endeavor becomes somewhat expensive. Wiz believes the website will help with this. Wiz would like to turn the virtual island they are on into a bit more of a showcase, complete with museum. The studio Wikipicture project they are currently involved with is a bit of an experience, and it remains to be seen how it will all unfold.

Paisley acknowledged that much of the SL video/media available closely mimmicks RL, citing the example that her SL studio for the talk show is very like a RL TV talk show set. Wiz believes that what happens in SL is just a mirror of our real lives, using the example of journalism, and splitting things into chapters just as in RL. People have tried to do some different forms of writing, but there are "certain ways that we engage in art" and television is a reflection of our current lives. Some shows, such as Simboarding or The Snails, are ideas completely off the beaten path of what we would consider normal, reflective TV. The people factor is that we just want to learn about each other, which I personally is a normal, valid, human response.

This was a great show and to her credit, Paisley is a very skilled and talented interviewer. She exhibits terrific poise and quickly puts her guests to ease. Check out Paisley Beebe on Tonight Live weekly, some of your favorites may be the target of one her shows.

By Shellie Sands